Today I was reflecting on one of the words of Christ from the cross. We have a community Good Friday service every year and my text was Luke 23:43 — “Today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Interestingly, I went through this passage in TNIV and ESV and discovered how smooth the TNIV is compared to ESV. Verses 40-41 go like this in the TNIV:

23:40
But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence?
23:41
We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

Then, the ESV:

23:40
But the other rebuked him, saying, Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
23:41
And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.

The phrase that threw me off was “and we indeed justly.” I had to read it several times, going “HUH?” each time, until I finally connected it to v. 40. Looking it up in Greek, I understand “punished” is supplied in English. Why? To smooth out the reading. Is it correct to do so? I do not doubt it.

Before we go off the deep end and say, “Well, the ESV is simply being completely accurate,” I had to look at other formal translations to see how they handled that verse.

NASB (my good ol’ standby):

23:40
But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
23:41
“And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what F503 we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.”

They supplied “suffering.”

NRSV:

23:40
But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
23:41
And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong.”

They supplied “condemned.”

RSV (the prototype for the ESV):

23:40
But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
23:41
And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.”

The RSV is clearly the pattern for the ESV here. Yet, two very fine formal translations felt the need to put in a word just to smooth out the reading. It was not a bad idea. It kept me from going, “HUH?”

I do not mind the ESV. I am still a fan of formal translations. The smoothing out for English reading is becoming more understandable to me as time goes by. The reading of public Scripture is so vital, and to have a text clunk like that is a shock to the system, especially if you are reading it publicly for the first time.

Again, I am finding the TNIV a more “dynamic equivalence” work, yet one that is more “formal” than the NIV, which I like very much.

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12 responses to “”

  1. debbie deblieck Avatar
    debbie deblieck

    Pastor Dan,

    Can’t forget the KJV my favorite.

    23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

    23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

    Just had to… πŸ™‚ Shalom, Debbie

  2. debbie deblieck Avatar
    debbie deblieck

    Pastor Dan,

    Can’t forget the KJV my favorite.

    23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

    23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

    Just had to… πŸ™‚ Shalom, Debbie

  3. Apprentice2Jesus Avatar
    Apprentice2Jesus

    That’s true. The ESV followed the tradition of the KJV and the RSV.

  4. Apprentice2Jesus Avatar
    Apprentice2Jesus

    That’s true. The ESV followed the tradition of the KJV and the RSV.

  5. i think you make a great pt about the occasional awkwardness of the ESV.

    a couple thoughts: one, the wording caused you to think “huh?” which caused you to study further. so in some ways, it was a good thing.

    two, i DEFINITELY agree with you about reading Scripture. but if the issue at stake is readability, then maybe we should use something like the CEV whose primary purpose it for ease of spoken language. it even connects verses together in order to help with the flow of the syntax. and finally, it reorganizes the structure of the poetry like psalms and song of songs in order to better represent a poetic syntax.

    while it may not be as “accurate” word for word, it does have a good concept as far as speakability, without losing content like the message.

    peter

  6. i think you make a great pt about the occasional awkwardness of the ESV.

    a couple thoughts: one, the wording caused you to think “huh?” which caused you to study further. so in some ways, it was a good thing.

    two, i DEFINITELY agree with you about reading Scripture. but if the issue at stake is readability, then maybe we should use something like the CEV whose primary purpose it for ease of spoken language. it even connects verses together in order to help with the flow of the syntax. and finally, it reorganizes the structure of the poetry like psalms and song of songs in order to better represent a poetic syntax.

    while it may not be as “accurate” word for word, it does have a good concept as far as speakability, without losing content like the message.

    peter

  7. Hey Pastor Dan! It’s Grace, from your BSM and Old Testament classes. I’m just commenting to say that I enjoy reading your blog and especially all this translation stuff πŸ™‚

  8. Hey Pastor Dan! It’s Grace, from your BSM and Old Testament classes. I’m just commenting to say that I enjoy reading your blog and especially all this translation stuff πŸ™‚

  9. Apprentice2Jesus Avatar
    Apprentice2Jesus

    Thanks for the comment, Grace!

    On pdbandj7’s comments…

    Going “Huh” is not bad. I do not mind that because it does force me to take a closer look. It’s just not a good thing when it happens during a public reading.

    I also agree the CEV is probably a better “public” translation. However, I am trying to strike a balance with my congregation concerning readability and being able to rely on a translation for study and memorization as well. That leads me toward more “formal” translations, though I am backing off the ESV more and leaning a bit harder toward the TNIV for those purposes.

  10. Apprentice2Jesus Avatar
    Apprentice2Jesus

    Thanks for the comment, Grace!

    On pdbandj7’s comments…

    Going “Huh” is not bad. I do not mind that because it does force me to take a closer look. It’s just not a good thing when it happens during a public reading.

    I also agree the CEV is probably a better “public” translation. However, I am trying to strike a balance with my congregation concerning readability and being able to rely on a translation for study and memorization as well. That leads me toward more “formal” translations, though I am backing off the ESV more and leaning a bit harder toward the TNIV for those purposes.

  11. opinion-minion Avatar
    opinion-minion

    Thanks for the feedback!

    My TNIV is a thinline, but it’s more of handsized deal—you might have one that’s slightly larger. Mine’s about eight inches tall, and while there’s the ever present ‘ghosting’ I haven’t had any bleedthrough yet, despite brackets and notes.

    I test out my Bible’s bleedthrough factor usually by writing my email on the title page (in case it is lost) or a line of poetry on a page of the concordance—for instance, Gerard Manley Hopkin’s instantly classic “There is nothing so beautiful as spring.” That way, I’m ‘safe.”

    I also find that the TNIV can be smoother (and make more sense!) than the ESV, especially when I’m reading aloud to younger children. They “get” the TNIV (and me too, many times!) where the ESV sounds a bit awkward or confusing.

  12. opinion-minion Avatar
    opinion-minion

    Thanks for the feedback!

    My TNIV is a thinline, but it’s more of handsized deal—you might have one that’s slightly larger. Mine’s about eight inches tall, and while there’s the ever present ‘ghosting’ I haven’t had any bleedthrough yet, despite brackets and notes.

    I test out my Bible’s bleedthrough factor usually by writing my email on the title page (in case it is lost) or a line of poetry on a page of the concordance—for instance, Gerard Manley Hopkin’s instantly classic “There is nothing so beautiful as spring.” That way, I’m ‘safe.”

    I also find that the TNIV can be smoother (and make more sense!) than the ESV, especially when I’m reading aloud to younger children. They “get” the TNIV (and me too, many times!) where the ESV sounds a bit awkward or confusing.

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